VauxSport - Vauxhall advice and chat forum

fennyLET · Posted: Wed Jul 08, 2009 10:24 pm Post subject:

WOW mate. Browney will be pissed PMSL

Credit to you mate. Money well spent?
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Quote from PV "Your car could win....... if it rains"
Something along those lines anyway lmao lmao

Jonny · Posted: Wed Jul 08, 2009 10:28 pm Post subject:

Jonboy · Posted: Wed Jul 08, 2009 11:13 pm Post subject:

AL · Posted: Wed Jul 08, 2009 11:16 pm Post subject:

Looks likea stunning shell whatever Olly chooses to do with it!
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Will be coming back to the Vaux side soon... I hope!

chip · Posted: Thu Jul 09, 2009 12:07 am Post subject:

Jonboy · Posted: Thu Jul 09, 2009 12:19 am Post subject:

Maybe it would but placing another 50kgs over the front wheels wont do it any favours in the corners and I think its been proven enough times that big block novas/corsas DO struggle in the bends.

Tuning his engine to a serious spec would probably make it faster than the turbo variant.

IF I was building a track car from scratch it would not have a turbo engine in it but that is my opinion, you can happily have your own
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ATMO engines FTW

chip · Posted: Thu Jul 09, 2009 12:50 am Post subject:

Jonboy · Posted: Thu Jul 09, 2009 1:16 am Post subject:

F28 and other bits required all add up, maybe not to 50kgs but it was a point aimed at extra weight, especially in this case over a small block.

Motorsport teams DO have some serious financing and simply bolting a turbo engine in a standard (ish) shell is not how they go about doing things so its fair to say its a poor example when trying to compare like for like.

IF you were going to turbo a sub 800kg car I am sure a works team would not start out with a big heavy engine, they would consider all the options and at a guess if it was a nova (for example) it would be alloy blocked, magnesium gearbox, inconel this and that and to finish it all off it would not be fitted where we put them as they already proved with the BTCC Vectras for example which ofcourse so far I have never seen anyone even attempt to do to a nova simply as a: there isn't the room and b: they don't have the finances to approach anyone to make them a bespoke gearbox to suit the job.

A Astra was designed for a 2l in the bay and sorry to disagree with you as I forget you have been out in several well sorted cars, even the basic ish turbo Astra I drove round the ring would of ate my nova for breakfast in the corners simply due to not understeering.

Just after a re read of what you posted above can you name me a FWD car that was turboed in motorsport and quicker than its NA equivalent although running NO more power ?

I can think of a rwd example that clearly stands out and makes your point valid, 550hp Turbo RS500 BTCC VS 375ish hp NA M3 BTCC, the Sierras dusted the M3's but once again I think comparing a works built and prepared car to a garage tuned budget car is a little silly
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ATMO engines FTW

chip · Posted: Thu Jul 09, 2009 1:51 am Post subject:

Jonboy, why would you have a turbo car and run NO more power?

What a stupid question, so no of course I cant provide you with an example of one as you would have to be shit at building a turbo car to not make any more power than a same cc N/A one built to the same budget etc, given that we are talking about without a restrictor here of course, as Olly wouldnt be running one.

Sierra's not only dusted the M3s, they did so with a smaller engine, and for the single reason that they had a turbo and the M3 didnt have one, if the M3 was turbo'd it would have wiped the floor with the sierra IMHO
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Under 400bhp makes baby jesus cry.
(so my boost leak at the jamsport day must have had him sobbing like rich j williams watching a chick flick)

www.totalvauxhall.co.uk

Nova - 457bhp - Mid Engine - RWD - GT35 - Autronic SM4

Jonboy · Posted: Thu Jul 09, 2009 2:32 am Post subject:

Well best you give me a example as its such a stupid point to of made, I am trying to make a point of extra weight and torque NOT helping a small fwd car at all, a works team can afford to develop such a car, we cannot and it IS proven in this scene that novas corsas and no doubt fiestas and other similar other cars all suffer on the handling by fitting larger engines with torquey engines.

Like for like Ollys old car and the Fiesta are quite similar, infact very much identical although Olz had a heavier more powerful engine under the bonnet yet is upto 3 secs a lap slower than the Fiesta, allowing for track knowledge and the fact the Fiesta most probably runs 3 way adjustable suspension I still stand by my point that due to it being lighter over the wheels it handles better than it would if it had a larger engine yet either way as it is that car has 50 less hp than Ollys old xe did anwyay.

I am fighting a losing battle trying to get my point across as fitting a big block or LET is the ONLY way to do a car but now I have been in most variatons of the smaller Vauxhalls I can offer a honest opinion on what I have found to work and what doesn't.

A 1.6 16v turbo with something like the Autronic running it would possibly make a very interesting package in a nova or corsa, its obviously the last thing anyone is going to do due to cost but you simply cannot compare the handling characteristics of a small block nova to a big block one as they are that different so in a ideal world (for you anyway) that would be the way to go with things.
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ATMO engines FTW

alistairolsen · Posted: Thu Jul 09, 2009 8:43 am Post subject:

Olly back in a nova, whod have thought it :P

Countvauxalot stylee build?

ref the smallblock argument, I agree the weight doesnt help, and I agree turbos are the way forward, which leaves a 1.6 turbo as the obvious choice. by the time you fit the f20, intercooler, turbo, manifolds etc it will weigh as much as an xe IMO. Still a worthwhile saving over the let, but IMO not worth doing unless you use an 1800 and go for in excess of 220bhp.

chip · Posted: Thu Jul 09, 2009 12:26 pm Post subject:

Jonboy, a smallblock 1.8 16v turbo is what I would go for if I was building a money no object trackday nova. Well assuming I wasnt allowed to use an ITR engine, lol

So I agree with you on the bigblock versus smallblock thing, that is a big weight difference for a relatively small gain, where as a turbo is a small weight difference for a relatively large gain.

I think you have your wires crossed slightly with what im saying.
_________________
Under 400bhp makes baby jesus cry.
(so my boost leak at the jamsport day must have had him sobbing like rich j williams watching a chick flick)

www.totalvauxhall.co.uk

Nova - 457bhp - Mid Engine - RWD - GT35 - Autronic SM4

alistairolsen · Posted: Thu Jul 09, 2009 12:41 pm Post subject:

lol, CTR engine is a shout, even its on the correct side.

Ive often wondered what would happen if you took the xe and box and turned it round to fit behind the axle, swapped the shafts and bolted it back in with some massaging of the bulkhead. Sat the driver right back in the rear footwell with an extended column......

chip · Posted: Thu Jul 09, 2009 12:44 pm Post subject:

Im not sure what you mean there, surely you would end up with 5 reverse gears unless ive missed something?
_________________
Under 400bhp makes baby jesus cry.
(so my boost leak at the jamsport day must have had him sobbing like rich j williams watching a chick flick)

www.totalvauxhall.co.uk

Nova - 457bhp - Mid Engine - RWD - GT35 - Autronic SM4

alistairolsen · Posted: Thu Jul 09, 2009 12:47 pm Post subject:

and theres the reason I handt thought of for not doing it Sad

chip · Posted: Thu Jul 09, 2009 1:45 pm Post subject:

Not like a RWD car when you can just turn the diff upside-down sadly!
_________________
Under 400bhp makes baby jesus cry.
(so my boost leak at the jamsport day must have had him sobbing like rich j williams watching a chick flick)

www.totalvauxhall.co.uk

Nova - 457bhp - Mid Engine - RWD - GT35 - Autronic SM4

alistairolsen · Posted: Thu Jul 09, 2009 2:01 pm Post subject:

the trick I guess would be using an f20 with the honda engine which runs the other way around to get back to the 5 forward one reverse...

chip · Posted: Thu Jul 09, 2009 2:10 pm Post subject:

Yes, I looked at doing the opposite with my nova, run an F28 but turned the opposite way around in the back of my car with a honda engine so that it still turned the same way as it does now (ie a double negative), not to move the weight distribution (which would arguably get worse with it being mid engined) but I wanted the transfer box to sit in front of the engine not behind it.

Sadly a gearbox expert informed me that running the box backwards would be bad for it so I fitted the current engine instead, which is far more expensive to get power from than a H22A would have been, lol.
_________________
Under 400bhp makes baby jesus cry.
(so my boost leak at the jamsport day must have had him sobbing like rich j williams watching a chick flick)

www.totalvauxhall.co.uk

Nova - 457bhp - Mid Engine - RWD - GT35 - Autronic SM4

alistairolsen · Posted: Thu Jul 09, 2009 2:32 pm Post subject:

yeah, honda engines are pretty well catered for tuning wise! Just dont understand why other manufacturers cant manage the same rpm etc without failures

chip · Posted: Thu Jul 09, 2009 2:52 pm Post subject:

accountants
_________________
Under 400bhp makes baby jesus cry.
(so my boost leak at the jamsport day must have had him sobbing like rich j williams watching a chick flick)

www.totalvauxhall.co.uk

Nova - 457bhp - Mid Engine - RWD - GT35 - Autronic SM4