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MyRomeo · Posted: Wed Apr 09, 2008 11:29 am Post subject:

lol brett. this was 'testing' the flow at the fogger... i wanted to make sure it was working, which it wasnt, it was spluttering away, as trev has suggested it looks like a poor electrical supply hence im rewiring the system today.

these bottle heaters, do they get wired to the same switch as the pulsoids? i dont really want a load of different switches, ill get confused!

Also, is a pressure gauge VITAL or does the heater regulate itself?
_________________
MGTF-160 Sprint
BMC-CDA, Ported inlet, Polished TB, Custom pipes, remapped + WON 150i
177bhp + 50hp N2O

Brett928S2 · Posted: Wed Apr 09, 2008 11:53 am Post subject:

MyRomeo · Posted: Wed Apr 09, 2008 12:01 pm Post subject:

thanks for that. i dont really want a gauge in the car, the missus will only ask questions then! she doesnt know about the WON kit hehehe... need to know basis Wink

ill have a good chat with the lads at WON next week to make sure what im doing is the best way forward.

cheers for the pointers!
_________________
MGTF-160 Sprint
BMC-CDA, Ported inlet, Polished TB, Custom pipes, remapped + WON 150i
177bhp + 50hp N2O

MyRomeo · Posted: Wed Apr 09, 2008 2:56 pm Post subject:

ok an update-

i have replaced the supply live wire and now have a 2.5mm wire (26A rating) running from the battery to the fuse and the arm switch at the dash, this then runs to the pulsoids and then the neutral from the pulsoids goes thru the microswitch on the TB and then to the chassis. is this the correct setup yes?

I have tried it out and still am getting a delay when putting the throttle to the floor, of 3 runs only 1 kicked in stright away, its as if the engine is ignoring it or letting it build up before using it... how is this possible?! sometimes i floor it in 2nd gear at 3000rpm, letting the throttle reach WOT at about 3500rpm when accelerating strong already and the effect of the nitrous isnt felt until as late as 5500rpm... some 2000rpm later!

having tested the fogger aimed to the sky and hitting the microswitch i get a strong flow of both fuel and nitrous. i have also tested the microswitch setup is at WOT. this seems fine.

Would it be possible that the mix is to rich and the engine doesnt like it? when i did the static test on the 25hp jets i had a 20 fuel and 50 nitrous so a 2.5:1 ratio, with the 50hp i have a 50 fuel and 100 nitrous jets giving a ratio of 2:1... the static test at 2.5:1 worked almost perfectly, rising to just shy of 1000 off the redline. i dont dare the static test with the 50hp shots.

im also wondering if this could be a pressure issue too, when i first set up the 50hp jets it worked perfectly but it had been sunny for a few days and outside was 18-20c whilst now its not sunny, keeps raining and is closer to 10-12c. if this is the case then it will be resolved next week when i call in for a heater... if its not tho im stumped!

can someone help out here?
_________________
MGTF-160 Sprint
BMC-CDA, Ported inlet, Polished TB, Custom pipes, remapped + WON 150i
177bhp + 50hp N2O

Noswizard · Posted: Wed Apr 09, 2008 3:06 pm Post subject:

Yes I can - this is best done on the phone, so please PM me your number and I'll call you.
_________________
Trev (The WIZARD of NOS)

Noswizard · Posted: Wed Apr 09, 2008 3:08 pm Post subject:

In the meantime can you post me pics of the bottle mounting and tell me EXACTLY where your nitrous supply pipe is routed.

You might also like to check and try closing your plug gaps by 2 to 4 thou.

Regards
_________________
Trev (The WIZARD of NOS)

MyRomeo · Posted: Wed Apr 09, 2008 3:26 pm Post subject:

ok here you go trev, the nitrous line is all inside the car and runs from the front, down passenger side sill, up behind passenger seat, over parcel shelf and down into engine bay.

as for the bottle, i KNOW its not ideal installation but due to the size of the car i have nowhere (other than where the missus likes to sit) that i could mount it front facing... i installed it as i have so the bottom is lower than the top and it is still the bottom towards the back of the car. i kept the outlet pipe pointing down as per the instructions. its probably worth pointing out that i had the bottle filled from empty yesterday evening so i know its got some gas in... and it is open Smile

i dont know what else i can do with it... but then again im no expert on this!!

also to mention - initially when i installed the 50 jets it DID work perfectly, to put it simply it blew me away! i just dont know what could have changed since.

spark plugs - that is a twat of a job so would prefer to leave that for now... need to dismantle half the car to get at them!
_________________
MGTF-160 Sprint
BMC-CDA, Ported inlet, Polished TB, Custom pipes, remapped + WON 150i
177bhp + 50hp N2O

Noswizard · Posted: Wed Apr 09, 2008 3:45 pm Post subject:

MyRomeo · Posted: Wed Apr 09, 2008 3:50 pm Post subject:

i have changed them to a grade cooler... thats how i know there such a pain to change Sad

i didnt touch the gap on them tho, these 2 thous and such confuse me, i understand 'bash it a little' and 'too much!'...

i look forward to your call trev, CHEERS!!!
_________________
MGTF-160 Sprint
BMC-CDA, Ported inlet, Polished TB, Custom pipes, remapped + WON 150i
177bhp + 50hp N2O

MyRomeo · Posted: Thu Apr 10, 2008 9:08 pm Post subject:

okay - update again

all wiring has been redone - im happy its all as good as it can be

pipes have been made as short as reasonably possible

nitrous supply is only in engine bay for minimal distance and is not exposed to heat.

microswitch setup has been moved to about 90% throttle

have checked flow of nitrous - is comming in as soon as i floor it.

fuel is also flowing happily.

having chatted to a mate tonight about the setup (hes a NX fan.... i have warned you) he has suggested that if my won system is set up and operating then it could well be an ECU issue as to the car is running in economy mode when i have been testing it, he has suggsted that i try going for a proper thrash... i dont usually exceed 40% throttle! perhaps i need to learn to drive like i was 17 again!

also, he has suggested that the fogger should be 6-8 inch away from the throttle body, my understanding is that it should be as close to the TB as possible, can this be clarified please?

finally, Trev, i plan on calling in on wednesday on my way up the A1, i want to go back to a 2.5:1 ratio by changing the 50 fuel jet for a 40, the static tests @25hp were done at 2.5:1 and were spot on. i wonder if maybe 2:1 is just a little too rich. I also want to buy a bottle heater. im not going to increase to the 11lb bottle just yet, the 5lb is lasting me about 2 weeks at a time so i dont feel the need. same with the prog con, WHEN i decide 50 is not enough i WILL be buying a prog con but for now i want to get the setup i currently have working at its best.

many thanks for your phonecall the other night and the suggestions you made, i really do appreciate it.

Cheers, Marko
_________________
MGTF-160 Sprint
BMC-CDA, Ported inlet, Polished TB, Custom pipes, remapped + WON 150i
177bhp + 50hp N2O

Noswizard · Posted: Thu Apr 10, 2008 9:34 pm Post subject:

mrmoo · Posted: Thu Apr 10, 2008 10:02 pm Post subject:

just sounds like low bottle pressure causing the mxiture to run rich??

just an example but my cold bottle is giving 550psi at garage temps
with the space heater on in the garage the pressure went upto 700psi in 30mins Smile

a bottle heater will keep you at the same power level until the bottle is virtually empty

ps sorry if this has already been said, no sleep does that lol
_________________
Bring back The JAMS, the mumu shall rule the world once more. How strong is an essex engine? How deep are your pockets? replies the engine shop Laughing

xxdrac · Posted: Thu Apr 10, 2008 10:57 pm Post subject:

I would go with bottle pressuer as well , the difference in performance and delivery on my bike from 800 psi and when its at 950 psi really is very very noticable

but if ya passing WON HQ maybe Ant could do his Nitrogen Top up and then take for a quick blast , me i would fit a gauge to the bottle or just remove bottle from car keep inside in warm then refit take for a blast

and if it get to high you will hear the SPRV let a bit of gas of and reseal
_________________
XXDRAC™ WON 75 kit :-) 10.94 @ 132mph on an XJR1300 :-)

mrmoo · Posted: Thu Apr 10, 2008 11:17 pm Post subject:

bottle gauge i think be the 1st move Smile

youll then be able to reference the power loss to the bottle pressure

_________________
Bring back The JAMS, the mumu shall rule the world once more. How strong is an essex engine? How deep are your pockets? replies the engine shop Laughing

Noswizard · Posted: Thu Apr 10, 2008 11:38 pm Post subject:

Bottle pressure should not affect the response time of the initial hit by enough to be noticeable, so that's NOT causing this problem but obviously constant bottle pressure is beneficial overall.

Regards
_________________
Trev (The WIZARD of NOS)

MyRomeo · Posted: Fri Apr 11, 2008 7:45 am Post subject:

thanks everyone for that.

as said, i do intend on calling via WON next week to get a bottle heater.

Trev - you say the 2.5:1 ratio is now out the window with the heater and i should be at 2:1... does this mean that i wont need to repeat the static test? im guessing that i will?

as for the bottle pressure gauge - not so concerned as once the heater is on wont it regulate itself? my car takes 10-15 mins to heat up in the morning so i plan on setting the heater to come on with ignition regardless of nitrous system state. ill fit a switch to override this if the bottle is removed or similar.

as for my mates nitrous knowledge - yes, i agree, most, if not everything he said was the complete opposit to what you lot say. ie, bottles must be polished, lines must be braided, a purge system is vital... heh, poor chap. hes running 120hp on his 2.6 V6 audi, i bet it feels the same as my 50hp won kit!!!

the more testing i do the more i am convinced the issue lies with the engine and not the WON system. as we have said, the system appears to be working perfectly. i have also noticed that if im not driving hard the car is less responsive if i suddenly boot it then when i am driving hard. im going to have a word with another friend today who specialises in engine tuning and ecu mapping... perhaps he can shed some light on this. i think there must be an economy mode or something built into the car, if its there it must be over-rideable!!

oh, before anyone asks, the reason i dont drive hard is that i just dont have the roads available on a regualr basis to allow me to! im town center situated and work/parents/inlaws are all major roads to get to... damn
_________________
MGTF-160 Sprint
BMC-CDA, Ported inlet, Polished TB, Custom pipes, remapped + WON 150i
177bhp + 50hp N2O

MyRomeo · Posted: Fri Apr 11, 2008 9:53 am Post subject:

i've been thinking quite some on this...

the hesitation seems to be linked to when i have changed my fuel from 97ron esso ultimate to 99ron shell vpower. the car was remapped whilst running 97ron fuel but was taken to MBT as to allow running on 95ron. i have only been using the vpower for the free ferrarris...

would this cause such a hesitation?

i syuppose its easy enough to test, im low on fuel as it is, 1/4 tank left... think ill fill up at esso again see if it solves the problems.

ust for reference, my ecu does not have a knock sensor and so does not adjust the timing for the different fuels
_________________
MGTF-160 Sprint
BMC-CDA, Ported inlet, Polished TB, Custom pipes, remapped + WON 150i
177bhp + 50hp N2O

DebsTF · Posted: Fri Apr 11, 2008 11:15 am Post subject:

I doubt it's the fuel (unless you had a dodgy batch) since it is of higher octane than your ignition is mapped for.

There seems to be a misconception about knock sensors over on MG-Rover.org.

Be aware, a knock sensor does not strictly "adjust the timing for the different fuels" - what it does is to retard the timing in cases of knock (detonation) which can occur, for eg from using a fuel of too low an octane. When the knock stops the ignition advances back to its original mapped setting; it cannot advance the ignition further than this setting!

Therefore, whether you have a knock sensor or not, if you are mapped for 95RON you cannot take advantage of 99RON. What you are doing here is using the higher octane fuel to lessen the chances of detonation on nitrous (since your ECU is not user adjustable).

I'd hook the car up to a T4 Testbook and run a diagnostic - you may have the beginnings of a fault in one of the engine parameter sensors.

Additionally, have you set your nitrous system up so that it only activates at WOT?

At WOT the MEMS is in 'Open Loop' mode so it will not apply any corrections (eg fuel trim). Away from WOT the MEMS is in 'Closed Loop' (ie learning) mode and is likely to modify the fuelling when using nitrous because of lower inlet air tempereture and/or differing lambda readings.

MyRomeo · Posted: Fri Apr 11, 2008 11:22 am Post subject:

thanks for clearing that up debs. i must admit that knock has always slightly confused me!

yes, the switch is set up for WOT only.

i dont have a T4 system available but i do have a digimoto diagnostics suite that i can use to log a run or session. ill give running that a try later on.

rgds the fuel - is there any problem going back to the 97ron that i have been mapped running? does the safety factor really change a great deal between 99 and 97 ron fuels? i must admit i have always preferred teh way the car 'feels' when running the esso 97 stuff
_________________
MGTF-160 Sprint
BMC-CDA, Ported inlet, Polished TB, Custom pipes, remapped + WON 150i
177bhp + 50hp N2O

Noswizard · Posted: Fri Apr 11, 2008 12:13 pm Post subject:

Romeo you told me you'd changed the switch setting to activate at 90% rather than full throttle, so based on that and what Debs has mentioned that may well be the cause of the problem.

Try the following test;
Leave the arming switch off, nail the throttle then activate the arming switch. If that delivers the goods instantly, then it's you throttle activation point that's too early.

Regards
_________________
Trev (The WIZARD of NOS)

MyRomeo · Posted: Fri Apr 11, 2008 12:21 pm Post subject:

i can try that! sounds a good test, and a fun one!

it is set up at what i see as about 90% when operating the throttle by hand, this was where it came in happiest when pressing the pedal down so perhaps debs has sussed it! ill adjust the throttle cable too to ensure no excess play could be causing it to bounce intermittenly off 100% or delay it reaching 100%

i do hope i can resolve this asap, i need my power fix!

ive said this before and ill keep saying it, support here is something else!
_________________
MGTF-160 Sprint
BMC-CDA, Ported inlet, Polished TB, Custom pipes, remapped + WON 150i
177bhp + 50hp N2O

DebsTF · Posted: Fri Apr 11, 2008 1:21 pm Post subject:

MyRomeo · Posted: Fri Apr 11, 2008 1:31 pm Post subject:

guess im sticking with the vpower then!

i need to look into this WOT switch more i think, it sounds like despite my best efforts its still not set up right!

more tinkering is needed i thinks! ill get there!

it does seem strange that it DID work perfect then just stopped working perfect! suggests 'something' moved?!
_________________
MGTF-160 Sprint
BMC-CDA, Ported inlet, Polished TB, Custom pipes, remapped + WON 150i
177bhp + 50hp N2O

DebsTF · Posted: Fri Apr 11, 2008 1:36 pm Post subject:

It might be something a simple as slack in the throttle cable or the fact that the microswitch bracket has moved.

When we did mine it was a 2 (wo)man job to set it up accurately and to check it was working properly at WOT.

MyRomeo · Posted: Fri Apr 11, 2008 1:42 pm Post subject:

dbs known my luck it will be the most stupidly obvious thing possible... and i will have read too far into the problem and overlooked it!

this is becomming a love/hate thing now.. LOVE the system, hate that i keep fucking the setup about!
_________________
MGTF-160 Sprint
BMC-CDA, Ported inlet, Polished TB, Custom pipes, remapped + WON 150i
177bhp + 50hp N2O

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